Hardness and Conductivity

[jkdjedi]

Sept 21, 2016 10:29:51 GMT -5 Mastiffman/ Duramax7Man7 said:

Sept 20, 2016 6:16:05 GMT -5 jumpman said:

Interesting reading.....I only use Epsom Salt when I need to treat a sick fish or damaged fins, and ad a little bit of Seachem Cichlid liquid trace elements at every change. I may stop adding this though as I don't think it's really needed.

I've always believed that consistency and clean water are more important than additives as long as you are at a decent level of hard water already.

Aquarium salt would be a better choice for healing wounds and repairing the fins as the aquarium salts help the fish to produce electrolytes and this in turn is the subsystem for building their mucus coating which is what protects them mainly from disease and fungus when fins and scales get damaged.

Sept 20, 2016 11:18:22 GMT -5 ... said:

Very interesting read indeed...means it is imperative to s.....l.....o......w down the acclination process of store bought fish...but how slow is slow enough if you don't know the conductivity of the stores water...or suppose it is 4500 and my tank is 650...what rate enables the fish to adjust appropriately?
I'm guessing the wholesalers and stores Jack the salt levels up to keep fungus & parasites at bey...any other thoughts?
I ask read somewhere this week that the general hardness of water can also impact the ease at which sperm pass through the egg's outer membrane...ie the higher the degree of hardness the tougher the membrane. Obviously for tangs the degree of hardness would need to be above that of the lake's to have a negative impact...probably a good reason to check our source water for baseline hardness so we know what to add or not to add...i for 1 have hard well water...maybe it already surpasses that of the lake...i don't know but I should probably check...right? 🤔

I haven't checked my waters conductivity from the tap or in my tanks but will get to it. It's all important to me. Especially now that I know about it. I'm trying to continually step up my aquatic care practices to get to an optimal point.

I agree and very interesting about the Egg membranes. I haven't had issues before even when I was using just Epsom salt to raise my Gh (magnesium) and it got to almost 400ppm before checking as I decided on an amount and started adding it weekly. But I did adjust it after that down to lake tang measurements which believe is around 320-360ppm

Sept 20, 2016 12:11:13 GMT -5 Marius said:

Andrew, why the Tang Buffer? How high do you want to get the PH? On a side note, what does it contain that is raises the PH so much? (I couldn't find any info on it from their web-site). Baking soda only raises KH to an 8.2

Tang Buffer will change the Ph (Acidity/ Alkalinity measure) which just like in our bodies affects the functioning of the fishes organs and processes in the body. In the past I've wondered how much of an effect the proper Ph would have on the fish overall. And with my Ikola getting older now, (I've had them since October of 2010 and got them at about 1.25") I'm wanting to make sure that they are in the best possible environment I can provide for them. As well as the others. After going through what I did a couple of years ago with a few purchases from a "Little Alternate Abuser" of importing businesses that sent me some infected fish. It's opened my eye's to a few things regard health and longevity of fish. Especially Tropheus. So I'm aiming at the best care...

SeaChem has sent an R&D Team to Africa to develop their African Cichlid Products to mimic that of the lake. I myself believe that it can only help to put these into affect while caring for our African fish. I do realize that it's more expensive, especially for multiple tanks, but this is where any revenue of mine goes to, mostly. That and keeping food and water treatments (City water) in stock. I trust SeaChems products. I have used them for a while now and have made them apart of my care routines.

Sept 20, 2016 21:22:56 GMT -5 jkdjedi said:

I've had that happen before, back in the 80's, Thank goodness we have good breeders (like mastiffman) and good hobbyist who don't slam their tanks with salt.

Moral of the article? Don't buy from Stores! ha ha!

Just playing devils advocate here, is it really worth the trouble trying to match lake Tanganyika's water parameters? Yes FO would probably have a higher survival rate at first introduction to your tanks. What happens when and if you send them or their fry elsewhere, on a sale or gift, what are the chances the water parameters at any given state or country will exactly match the extra high Tanganyika's salt,pH,etc
levels?

[Mastiffman/ Duramax7Man7]

No worries and good question. To me personally, I think that it's completely worth it. But that's me... I'm not just breeding these fish. They are my "pets" and I enjoy the interaction with them and viewing them. So I feel obligated to take care of them as best as possible. Especially considering that they were pulled from the wild. To me it only seems fair to care for them the best I can and know how.

I haven't had any issues yet with buyers reporting back to me about any issues to date in my two years of using the SeaChem Cichlid Lake salt. But typically, most astute buyers investing any amount of money on a good sized colony of fry will ask me what I use in my tanks for water conditioning as well as foods fed. And if they don't ask before shipping or picking them up, I will tell them and make sure that they know what my routine is. I also tell buyers that are local how they should acclimate their new fry. I have also incorporated a paragraph of my most cautious and successful acclimation process, step by step on my sales invoice template so that every buyer has instructions on "how to" if they don't already know. There are still people that consider "floating" them good enough. And I think that we all know at this point that just matching the temps is not enough and technically shouldn't be the main concern. A 2-3 degree difference in temps is not going to harm the fish at all.

If someone is persistent on the floating method, I recommend adding a cup of tank water to the bag every 10-15 minutes for a good 45-60 minutes. If water parameters are the same then this is not that big of concern.

Bottom line for me is that I will take care of my fish as best as possible and encourage others to do the same. Using the Seachem products on one tank is actually not very expensive to maintain, once the appropriate levels are achieved... Especially if they are purchased in bulk. Look at what people go through with salt water tanks to maintain them. We don't have to spend that much money for our freshwater tanks. So why not look at them in same way. People may very well end up having their fish for many years than they thought that they could have if they were cared for more like Salt tanks are. After all, they are organisms and need special diets and environments and limit exposure to other potentially harmful substances just like we do to thrive.

Another concern of mine is the long term exposure to fluoride. I don't recall reading if activated carbon removes it. But I would one day like to see if it's possible. Winter months are always easier to make time for reading than the summer months though. So hopefully soon.

[jkdjedi]

Sept 21, 2016 12:31:27 GMT -5 Mastiffman/ Duramax7Man7 said:

No worries and good question. To me personally, I think that it's completely worth it. But that's me... I'm not just breeding these fish. They are my "pets" and I enjoy the interaction with them and viewing them. So I feel obligated to take care of them as best as possible. Especially considering that they were pulled from the wild. To me it only seems fair to care for them the best I can and know how.

I haven't had any issues yet with buyers reporting back to me about any issues to date in my two years of using the SeaChem Cichlid Lake salt. But typically, most astute buyers investing any amount of money on a good sized colony of fry will ask me what I use in my tanks for water conditioning as well as foods fed. And if they don't ask before shipping or picking them up, I will tell them and make sure that they know what my routine is. I also tell buyers that are local how they should acclimate their new fry. I have also incorporated a paragraph of my most cautious and successful acclimation process, step by step on my sales invoice template so that every buyer has instructions on "how to" if they don't already know. There are still people that consider "floating" them good enough. And I think that we all know at this point that just matching the temps is not enough and technically shouldn't be the main concern. A 2-3 degree difference in temps is not going to harm the fish at all.

If someone is persistent on the floating method, I recommend adding a cup of tank water to the bag every 10-15 minutes for a good 45-60 minutes. If water parameters are the same then this is not that big of concern.

Bottom line for me is that I will take care of my fish as best as possible and encourage others to do the same. Using the Seachem products on one tank is actually not very expensive to maintain, once the appropriate levels are achieved... Especially if they are purchased in bulk. Look at what people go through with salt water tanks to maintain them. We don't have to spend that much money for our freshwater tanks. So why not look at them in same way. People may very well end up having their fish for many years than they thought that they could have if they were cared for more like Salt tanks are. After all, they are organisms and need special diets and environments and limit exposure to other potentially harmful substances just like we do to thrive.

Another concern of mine is the long term exposure to fluoride. I don't recall reading if activated carbon removes it. But I would one day like to see if it's possible. Winter months are always easier to make time for reading than the summer months though. So hopefully soon.

Sechem Cichlid Lake Salt, will give that a try, thanks Mastiffman, always informative.

[Mastiffman/ Duramax7Man7]

My pleasure! Glad to help out.

[...]

Yea for me it's about fish health and providing an optimum aquatic environment for them to thrive in. Because I keep F1's and tank raised fish it's not such a big deal for me. Each species does however have a "preferred" range of water chemistry that maximizes health, disease resistance, internal systems functioning, etc. I observe behavior & health as my means of measure and don't test my water for hardness or pH anymore. I know that aragonite buffers water to about 8-8.2.
I guess if I had ongoing health issues, or discovered that hardness or conductivity could impact health or breeding, then that might be a different story...but then I only have 1 tank and breeding is not my main goal, just a happy by product 🤓

[Mastiffman/ Duramax7Man7]

That's what I've been seeing though with my tanks. I use all aragonite and the Ph seems to be lessoning for some reason. I tested a few tanks before water changes and their Ph was lower than 8. So this was also partially what sparked my interest in all of this.